Yellow roses

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Re: Yellow roses

by philip_la » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:19 am

Thanks for that info, Larry. I noticed it had Baby Love in its pedigree too, and several years ago everyone was raving about Baby Love lineages. I think the consensus turned to one of, great vertical resistance, not so much on the horizontal, for BL.

I'm now noticing that on HMF, SW only gets a "good" for disease-resistance.

Re: Yellow roses

by Larry Davis » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:08 pm

At first I was really impressed by Shockwave. I saw one growing along a highway in our town with minimal care. Hip production was erratic, with few in early years. One year it was loaded and I grew something over 100 seedlings. Beautiful flowers but every single plant was extremely sensitive to our kind of blackspot. Over the following couple years SW itself defoliated badly in its original location. Then it froze to the ground when temp went below 0 F to -10 for a couple nights. Did not have luck with pollen of it though I didn't try many crosses. So I've given up on that one. It did rebound this past summer and produce a good crop of blooms that looked good from the highway. I tried growing it from cuttings and had little success. Got one out of plant out of about 30 cuttings, done 10/yr. One year I put the fall rooted cuttings in a cold storage for a couple months and they chilled out. One year nothing took from fall cuttings which usually do well for me. One year got 2, one of which survived with protection from BS and cold for a couple years but had no vigor. I think it doesn't do well on its own roots in our soil. unlike the things I breed with.

Re: Yellow roses

by philip_la » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:57 pm

Chuck, I know some breeders on this forum were using, and recommending, both Lemon Fizz and Sunny Sky as good yellow Kordes parents. I think a lot of breeders aren't really revealing parentage to the extent they used to, and that might account for the lack of parents showing up.

On the subject of some earlier queries, in addition to Golden Holstein, I've read that Shockwave has a good relatively non-fading yellow. Have folks been impressed with its performance as a parent?

Re: Yellow roses

by chuckp » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:16 pm

Is it just me? Or have others noticed a marked decrease in offspring of roses yellow roses marketed by Kordes?
A cursory search of HMF. Starting around 1995 with the release of Golden Gate.
After quite sometime on the market. They are fewer roses released with these roses registered as their parents.
Golden Gate...................1995
Moonlight......................1995 ( only four seedlings)
Sweet Jane ...................1999
Sunny Sky......................1999
Solero Vigorosa...............2000
Winter Sun....................2001
Crazy Love....................2002

I wonder if Kordes is sacrificing viability and or seed production for disease resistance.

Here are a few earlier yellow roses that exhibit greater fertility, base on the number of offspring.
Golden Holstein..............1989........2 generations
Sunsprite.......................1973.......9 generations
Clare Grammerstorf..........1957......11 generations
My observations may not be limited to Kordes yellow roses, or for that matter yellow roses.
Chuckp

Re: Yellow roses

by chuckp » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:58 am

Hi Johannes,
Good question. I was out harvesting hips yesterday. Since I keep track of my failures as well as my successful crosses.
I couldn't help but noticing on some of the F1 kordesii breeding stock, the intended cross failed and right next to it,
are fat, juicy hips that are open pollinated.
.....So, it's not that ALL of the kordesii derived seedlings are infertile, it's more like what DavidZ stated.

[quote="david zlesak"]Hi Chuck, what were your other parents with 'Rise 'N Shine'? Perhaps the genetics and/or ploidy are enough different with these other parent(s) to limit or impact fertility of the hybrids.[/quote]

Last year I recovered and germinated some of these OP hips. With space at a premium, these are the first to go. I'll
have to rethink this practice. Thanks Johannes.
ChuckP

Re: Yellow roses

by johannes p » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:44 pm

Quote. "I find that Hazeldean is the only rose that holds its deep yellow pigment, but that's not transmitted
to it's offspring."

Do you remember what the other parents were? Did you have time to do sibling crosses or back ones?
Thanks Johannes.

Re: Yellow roses

by david zlesak » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:03 pm

Hi Chuck!

It is tetraploid. John Davis is triploid as well as a couple others. It seems like some Explorers that are even tetraploid don't set seeds or take pollen from crosses to well. I wonder if the hybrids inherited that.

Re: Yellow roses

by chuckp » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:14 am

Hi David,
Thanks for your reply. I crossed R.N.S with some of my own hybrids. And some of the Explorer hybrids.
What is the ploidy of R.N.S? Not listed on HMF.
Chuckp

Re: Yellow roses

by jbergeson » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:48 pm

Did you ever post pics of the virginiana hybrids, Jackie?

Re: Yellow roses

by jbergeson » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:48 pm

I seem to have missed seeing all of Jackie's pics until now. Congrats on getting repeaters in the second generation! I've found that to be difficult when incorporating tetraploid species such as R. virginiana.

Re: Yellow roses

by david zlesak » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:03 pm

Hi Chuck, what were your other parents with 'Rise 'N Shine'? Perhaps the genetics and/or ploidy are enough different with these other parent(s) to limit or impact fertility of the hybrids.

Re: Yellow roses

by chuckp » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:05 pm

As I posted on this tread before. I've employed Rise N Shine to breed yellows. These seedlings
have survived two seasons of Canadian Prairie winter weather and showing decent blackspot resistance.
What I'm having trouble with,few of these R.N.S seedling set hips.
Have anyone experienced the problem?

Re: Yellow roses

by jriekstins » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:36 pm

[attachment=0]2017 Gemshock x Prairie Peace 012.jpg[/attachment]
I have a few more repeating offspring from both r. altaica and Prairie Peace, along with a few repeaters from R. Virginiana crosses, also from Joe. Will post those on another topic.
Attachments
2017 Gemshock x Prairie Peace  012.jpg
(Gemini x Shockwave) X PP Very little pollen was available-did not set any hips.

Re: Yellow roses

by jriekstins » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:30 pm

[attachment=1]2017 LOTM x PP 005.jpg[/attachment][attachment=2]2017 GemRossxLOTMxPP 012.jpg[/attachment][attachment=2]2017 GemRossxLOTMxPP 012.jpg[/attachment]
Attachments
2017 Summerwine x GemAltaica    004.jpg
Another remontant-offspring of Summerwine x (Gemini x R. altaica) Whoops, this is not PP
2017 LOTM x PP 005.jpg
This one is a tall one-climbed into the tree. Lady of the Mist x PP, extreme fragrance!!
2017 GemRossxLOTMxPP 012.jpg
Remontant second generation. {(Gemini x RT 66) x (Lady of the Mist x PP)}

Re: Yellow roses

by jriekstins » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:20 pm

This might be a good place to share some photos of my attempts with Prairie Peace, pollen supplied by Joe b. PP seems to take to yellow fairly well, surely a lot more easily than R.altaica. I have a few more photos but will have to go to the next submission because I am unable to add more than 3--still get that message.
Attachments
2017 Dorola x Prairie Peace 007.jpg
Dorola x PP unfaded
2017 Dorola x PP  004.jpg
Dorola x PP
This one bloomed heavily and I threw every yellow I had at it--however only 3 hips took. It did set a few OPs, so maybe next yr it will do a little better.
2017  WOS x PP  018.jpg
Walking on Sunshine x PP

Re: Yellow roses

by chuckp » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:39 pm

Thanks David,
NowI know I'm not imagining this. In 2014, I bought three plants each of Rise N Shine, Bees Knees, and
Calpoly. I was able to get lots of viable pollen and harvested lots of viable seeds. I am now evaluating some of these 2014
seedlings, some of the are impressive.
When I look at the 2015 seed harvest, the harvest of hips on these mini-roses were down substantially. Most of
these plants have succumbed during winter. I think I'll have to treat these minis as expensive annuals.

I would love to hear from folks residing in warmer places where the overwintering of breeding stock (minis) is not so precarious.
Chuckp

Re: Yellow roses

by david zlesak » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:58 pm

Hi Chuck!

I have found that too... We got several 'R. 'N Shine' plants to use to develop a population of seedlings of it as a susceptible rose to multiple races of black spot as a female with some different roses with different races specific resistances. In the past I remember it as a great seed parent. As the plants matured most blooms were underdeveloped and without pollen... Eventually we chose to use 'Morden Blush' as our susceptible parent. 'R 'N Shine' has since produced abundant and full op hips as well as anthers. I wonder if part if it is the plants may need to mature a bit in size before the flowers are more fertile. It also seems there may be some environmental components even on larger plants that lead to poor or better fertility, but I'm not clear what the environmental components are.

Re: Yellow roses

by chuckp » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:45 pm

Hi everyone,
It's been along time since I've posted on this subject. Have anyone noticed when working with mins, that sometimes
though the plant is covered with blooms, the primordial hips are underdeveloped on some flowers, these flowers
often are undersized and don't have pollen.
I'm noticing the in yellow Mini like Rise N Shine and Calpoly. I've used both of thes plants previously, and got
copious of pollen and seed set. Feedback would be appreciated.
Chuckp

Re: Yellow roses

by chuckp » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:05 am

RBaxter,
With a Zone 8b/9a growing zone. I'm not sure what growing challenges you can face. Maybe mould , mildew and blackspot. These challenges are universal for all of us.
Week to get the seedlings into the ground. I always promise myself I'll get it done in June, but it never happens that way.
Chuckp
Attachments
2016-08-03 06.45.40.jpg
2016-08-03 06.46.39.jpg

Re: Yellow roses

by RBaxter » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:43 pm

I too believe that a bit of the right kind of red helps - and that the right kind is present in some of the amber and orange tinted roses.

I'm after a more strongly scented and a bit more strongly yellow Tea-like climber. I love my Teas, but my nose can barely smell them, and I'd like a bit more umph to their color. So I'm thinking of working with Autumn Sunset, Prairie Harvest and Honey Perfume. With a long term goal of capturing the Cläre Grammerstorf influence through doubling up on the Friedrich Wörlein, while adding some good Buck genes.

Something like (Autumn Sunset x Prairie Harvest) x (Prairie Harvest x {Honey Perfume or Autumn Sunset}) to hopefully get me a fragrant strong yellow tetraploid.

Then maybe crossed back to an Amber Cloud x Jersey Beauty to generate a fragrant, tough, Tea influenced yellow climber. Petal substance and petal holding time might be lacking a bit, but it would be fun to try. Some cold hardiness might make it through, but I would have no idea (8b/9a).

Regarding Honey Perfume. I've suspected that it's seed parent AROfres might be another Friedrich Wörlein descendant, through Friesia/Sunsprite and perhaps even Westerland - it has the look and fragrance strength to me - and why else would the breeder whom I'd bet was Jack Christensen for Armstrong Roses, use the "fres" after the normal ARO if not for Sunsprite?

Does anyone have knowledge of the ancestry of AROfres? I'd like for it to be a Westerland and Sunsprite offspring. That's another step I've thought of.

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