Mistress Quickley

A meeting place for rose breeders.
Pierre Lauwers

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1189Post Pierre Lauwers
Sun Jan 05, 2003 1:00 am

Hello Paul,

A friend of mine told me "Rose de Rescht" is nearly sterile as a seed.It seems to be not true?

"Tradescant" is the first red from Austin for wich he used an Hybrid Perpetual (Gloire de Ducher) but without telling too loud about it...So I'd use Gloire de Ducher directly.

"Reine des Violettes" is not very different from a "Rose de Rescht"- "Gloire de Ducher" cross.It is an HP issued from pink and reds Damasks and/or HPs.

Best wishes,

Pierre Lauwers.

Mike Ewing

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1190Post Mike Ewing
Sun Jan 05, 2003 1:00 am

Paul,

You've provided some good fodder for our imaginations. Are you going to keep us dreaming, or do you have some pictures for us? Please say it's the latter and not the former!

Thanks,

Mike

Paul B

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1193Post Paul B
Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:00 am

Pierre,

'Rose de Rescht' is indeed "nearly" sterile as a seed parent, yes. However, with perseverence I have obtained ten or twenty seeds from crosses on 'de Rescht', about 50% of which generally germinate. Many of them are once-bloomers when crossed with modern roses and other Damask Perpetuals. Occasionally one or two are reasonably remontant, as is the one shown here. This is the seedling I mentioned: 'de Rescht' X 'Tradescant'.

Regards,

Paul[img]http://www.rdrop.com/~paul/modern/reschtXtrad01a.jpg[/img]

Lydia

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1195Post Lydia
Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:00 am

Absolutely gorgeous!

Pierre Lauwers

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1196Post Pierre Lauwers
Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:00 am

Hello Paul,

Thanks for the information and congratulations for this fine result!

I'd try something like that, but with "Gloire de Ducher".

Best wishes,

Pierre.

Mike Ewing

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1197Post Mike Ewing
Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:00 am

Paul,

That is nifty. Does the foliage go all the way up to the bloom like on most Portlands?

How about fragrance? Are the seedlings you normally get from Tradescant or Rose de Rescht well-scented? Thanks for the pic.

Mike

Marcia M

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1201Post Marcia M
Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:00 am

That's a lovely rose, Paul.

Is there a compendium somewhere listing sterile or nearly sterile roses? As a new hobbyist-hybridizer, I'd like to know if there are other roses in my garden I shouldn't depend upon to be a parent plant. While it is easy to tell which roses set hips, it's not at all obvious if the pollen is lacking something!

Thanks.

Marcia

Pierre Rutten

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1202Post Pierre Rutten
Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:00 am

Marcia

It is easier to find the rare easy germinating and setting many hips vars.

But complete sterility is rare and may vary with yeaar and environment.

As Paul said: I'm not the only one who will tell you that the more unlikely, rare or difficult the mating, the greater your chances of getting something interesting.

For hardier roses the best ever progenitor Kordesii is from the *very* sterile Max Graff. Kordes for years made a lot of crosses on a large plant before getting two small hips and one or two plants.

Last year I did get one Max Graff seedling myself.

Then have a goal and in your garden and everywhere observe a lot of rose vars as for it possible progenitors. And at times you will persevere with some less fertile vars.

Friendly yours

Pierre Rutten


Paul B

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1203Post Paul B
Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:00 am

Mike,

That seedling doesn't have the "high shoulder" of most Damask Perpetuals, no. Neither does it have a very strong fragrance. I have found that maybe 1/2 of the 'Rose de Rescht' seedlings have decent to good fragrance.

Marcia,

There is not likely a published list, no. The best way to find out what the good pollen and seed parents are is to ask people who are working with breeding for their experiences. This forum is a good place to start. However, you need to ask the right question. IE: what traits are you looking for? You need to hone in on some goals and find out which roses are most likely to pass on those traits. Be very specific in your ideas and questions, always.

Regards,

Paul

Pierre Lauwers

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1205Post Pierre Lauwers
Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:00 am

Hello,

I have the impression that the more full the flower, the less pollen it has. But yes, total sterility is rare.It's a matter of chance. As with the r.Kordesii, to wich Kordes must be thankfull for a lot of his succes.

Best regards,

Pierre Lauwers.

Lydia

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1216Post Lydia
Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:00 am

Marcia

Some multipetaled OGRs that don't normally set op hips, will produce hips when pollinated and make good mothers. I've never seen op hips on Belle de Crecy, but when pollinated by hand it produces good hips with large seeds and they germinate easily after a couple of months in the fridge. I have a seedling from a 2000 cross with Fourth of July. It hasn't bloomed yet, but it's very healthy, and it roots in water.

I'm still getting germinations from crosses made in 2001 with another cultivar.

Marcia M

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1220Post Marcia M
Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:00 am

Thanks to everyone for their kindly offered advice. I understand needing to have a goal to work towards. I would love to work towards a very fragrant, fully double, remontant rose that is blackspot resistant. I understand such characteristics are probably contradictory! I do like the look of the old gallicas with their tightly packed petals, but would like rebloom. Hence my wish to plant some more of the Portlands and Austins. If only they could keep their leaves without spraying them.

Enrique Munoz Ra

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1221Post Enrique Munoz Ra
Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:00 am

Belle Isis is also a rose that doesn't produce hips by open pollination unless manually pollinated by hand.

Paul B

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1224Post Paul B
Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:00 am

Marcia,

I think it may be possible to create some new roses from the Gallicas when crossed with modern shrubs. However, its true that it will take at least 2 generations to recover the remontancy. I have some seedlings I have grown in the past five years using 'Tuscany Superb' as a parent, crossed with Miniatures and Austins. One of the seedlings from the Gallica X Austin crosses has been named and has limited availability in commerce. ('Ellen Tofflemire') Yet another seedling (image below) from that same cross, although of only an average pink hue, has proven to be totally Blackspot free in the 5 years I have been watching it. It does set some seed and produces a bit of pollen, and I am now exploring it as a possible parent to improve disease resistance. One more generation (when crossed with something fully remontant) will begin to show me some repeat blooming offspring. It may be a dead end, or it may prove of value. We shall see. If we can reinvent the Austins with good disease resistance, it would be a worthy goal, IMHO.

Regards,

Paul

Link: www.rdrop.com/~paul/gallicas/bestgallica.html[img]http://www.rdrop.com/~paul/gallicas/gallicandy.jpg[/img]

Enrique Munoz Ra

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1227Post Enrique Munoz Ra
Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:00 am

Paul, that is a gorgeous shrub. I actually like this color best. Deep pink, not really cerise, not really pink. Gertrude Jeckyll-ambigous pink...

I had a few 'Tuscany'blanda seedlings, all died. I think there was too big of a species gap between them, but I'm going to do this again, only reveresing the pod and seed parent. Gallicas has provided me a lot of intrest, especially when I see odd mutant seedlings, and stuff like that. I had a gallica seedling that I could had sworn that if it had survived, it would had oakleaf, hemp like crinkled foilage. It was an OP from an unlabled plant.

Marcia M

Re: Mistress Quickley

Post: # 1230Post Marcia M
Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:00 am

I agree with Enrique--that's another beautiful rose you've created, Paul. Thanks for the information about its background and your plans for future development. I can see why a rose hybridizer must be a patient person! Thank you for sharing your insight and thoughts on using Gallicas. I would love to grow fragrant, remontant OGR-lookalikes that hold onto their leaves. I hope they are available in my lifetime! And I'll think about what goals I'd like to work towards, if my interest in rose hybridizing continues.

Perhaps I'll add another Gallica or two to my rose order for spring. I'll need to fence in another section of my yard soon.

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