'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

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Paul G. Olsen
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'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69150Post Paul G. Olsen
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:44 pm

'Chinook Sunrise' (S13-5) - Vineland 49th Parallel Collection second introduction (2019). "This incredible rose blooms in a flush with a riot of exotic coral colours."

Parentage: 20ALFRO5 x 27YSP0412. Selections developed at Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Morden, Manitoba. Cross made at Vineland Research and Innovation Centre, Vineland, Ontario in 2011.

20ALFRO5 ('Astrid Lindgren' x 'Frontenac')

27YSPO412 ('Yellow Submarine' x P04 ('Scarlet Meidiland' x 'Frontenac')

Information provided by the Vineland Research and Innovation Centre.

Note: 'Never Alone' has the same parents as 27YSPO412 except they are reversed.

Rob Byrnes
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69153Post Rob Byrnes
Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:12 am

It's great that you were able to obtain the parentage for Chinook Sunrise Paul. I look forward to when it's available in the US.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

rikuhelin1
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69156Post rikuhelin1
Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:38 pm

Txs for sharing - could not locate on helpmefind

Peter Harris
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69159Post Peter Harris
Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:44 pm

HMF information for 'Chinook Sunrise' has been partly updated.

Peter

roseseek
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69172Post roseseek
Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:12 pm

As "partly" as I was able to cobble last night. If there is more information to be shared, please do so and it will be added. Thanks.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

Rob Byrnes
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69179Post Rob Byrnes
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:33 am

Kim,

I found some information that might be helpful on the Vineland Research and Innovation Centre website. I think -40 degrees Celsius is zone 2b. I was able to order Chinook Sunrise for spring delivery and I already have Canadian Shield.


Canada's National Hardy Rose Program

The rose program at Vineland focuses on breeding cold hardy garden and landscape roses, developing disease resistance screening techniques and understanding consumer preference and markets for Canadian roses. The first commercial releases from Canada's National Hardy Rose Program are part of Vineland’s 49th Parallel Collection. The roses are low-maintenance and continuously bloom all summer long. They are also disease resistant and winter hardy to -40ºC meaning there are no shrinking violets in this collection. The roses are products of Canada’s national rose program established in 2010 at Vineland in partnership with the Canadian Nursery Landscape Association. The first release in the collection, Canadian ShieldTM, was named Canada Blooms’ 2017 Plant of the Year. The second release, Chinook SunriseTM will be available in 2019, followed by Aurora BorealisTM in 2021. For more information, visit 49throses.com
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

mntlover
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69182Post mntlover
Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:32 pm

Thanks for the info guys! I look forward to hearing people's results from using some of these roses.
Duane

Paul G. Olsen
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69187Post Paul G. Olsen
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:26 pm

"They are also disease resistant and winter hardy to -40C meaning there are no shrinking violets in this (49th Parallel) collection."

They aren't winter hardy to -40C, of course. One just has to check their parentage to determine that. In fact, they may be semi-hardy to that temperature. Or are they?

Vineland had a trial plot of several selections of their roses at the University of Saskatchewan in an exposed location. I believe it was two years ago when they all croaked after a tough winter. No doubt 'Chinook Sunrise' was one of these selections.

Of course, it makes a great difference for their survival if these roses and others comparable in cold hardiness are grown in an urban location having lots of shelter or not. Most roses in Canada and in other countries, of course, are grown in an urban environment.

Developing roses cold hardy to -40C is important, not so much as to have rose cultivars having this cold hardiness because their likely great height would be problematic to use in home landscapes, but to have breeding lines available that can be used to develop semi-hardy roses that are tougher and still maintain a good, repeat flowering habit. It's a challenge because of the length of time it takes, but for better roses to grow in cold climates it should be worked on more.

Rob Byrnes
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69212Post Rob Byrnes
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:53 am

Very interesting Paul. Would you also question z2b hardiness for Frontenac and Campfire?
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

Paul G. Olsen
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69215Post Paul G. Olsen
Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:55 pm

Rob,

Absolutely I do. In fact, they are only semi-hardy to a 2b plant hardiness zone. 'Frontenac', of course, being hardier than 'Campfire' but the latter, considering its parentage ('My Hero' x 'Frontenac'), is hardier than I would expect it to be. By the way, 'Campfire' growing in Zone 2/3 can have an unusual growth habit for a semi-hardy rose cultivar in these climates. I've seen it growing much wider (about 1.2 metres) than taller. It puts on a spectacular show, of course.

Since I know that 'Bill Reid' (semi-double yellow) will kill out in a Zone 2 climate, I checked HMF and I see it's rated 3b. That is likely accurate. The first person to develop a semi-hardy, disease resistant, yellow rose having good repeat bloom for a Zone 2 climate is going to make a million (smile).

Rob Byrnes
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69216Post Rob Byrnes
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:15 pm

Thank you Paul. Can you think of any rose developed in Canada that actually is hardy to zone 2b? I'm thinking any might include rugosa blood but that's a guess.
Last edited by Rob Byrnes on Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

chuckp
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69218Post chuckp
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:35 pm

[quote="Paul G. Olsen"
Rob,

Since I know that 'Bill Reid' (semi-double yellow) will kill out in a Zone 2 climate, I checked HMF and I see it's rated 3b. That is likely accurate. The first person to develop a semi-hardy, disease resistant, yellow rose having good repeat bloom for a Zone 2 climate is going to make a million (smile).
[/quote]

Paul, I looked up the Ag. Canada Zone Hardiness Map. I cannot see how developing roses to meet Zone 2 climate would be financially rewarding.
The population densities are not there.
I think most of the market for hardy yellow roses lay within 100 hundred of the Canada/ US border in the Zone 3/3b.
Aiming for a lower zone places an unnecessary presser on the breeding programme.
chuckp

Paul G. Olsen
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69225Post Paul G. Olsen
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:31 pm

Rob,

There are many Canadian developed roses cold hardy to Zone 2 but mainly Spinosissima cultivars. 'Hazeldean', 'Prairie Peace', 'Beauty of Dropmore', 'Suzanne', etc. Interestingly, in some years 'Red Dawn x 'Suzanne' and J5 can do quite well. Others would include 'Athabasca', 'Therese Bugnet', 'Carlos Dawn', 'Caroyal', 'Lac la Nonne'. Note the influence of the Canadian Prairie Rosa acicularis or R. woodsii in the development of these cultivars. Coutts #7 (semi-double pink), which likely has Rosa canina in its pedigree, I regard as the new 'Suzanne' for its potential to breed many, new, cold hardy (Zone 2/3) rose cultivars. Interestingly, it's a triploid (thanks David!) but is fertile both ways although not always as a pistillate parent.

Charles,

Obviously, roses developed for growing in a Zone 2 climate will generally do well in a Zone 3 or 4 climate. Higher zones, then it's problematic because of disease issues.

'Morden Sunrise' and 'Bill Reid' (our best yellow roses for a Zone 3 climate) - we need to do better because both lack cold hardiness and the former is also subject to disease. It's very difficult, of course, developing a yellow rose repeating its flowers well and is cold hardy to a Zone 2 climate, although I think it can be done. For example, we now have a Rosa laxa selection repeating its flowers well all summer. The fact this species has white flowers makes it easy when crossing with yellow rose cultivars or selections to produce progeny having yellow flowers. I would also like to see a yellow rose breeding program using Rosa arkansana but disease susceptibility could be an issue with the progeny. Another alternative is using 'Stanwell Perpetual' as the staminate parent crossed with relatively hardy, yellow breeding lines, since SP has an extraordinary combination of very good cold hardiness and having fragrant, light pink flowers repeating very well.

"Pressure" on breeding programs is what we want. It's the challenge of developing roses advancing rose culture (in our case, for cold climates) that makes it so interesting and satisfying when we get positive results.

jbergeson
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69227Post jbergeson
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:07 pm

wait, Canadian zones are different right? Are we talking apples and oranges here?

rikuhelin1
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69229Post rikuhelin1
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:33 am

Probably more tangerines versus mandarins. Believe rule of thumb (from the Lazy Gardener's blog) is add 1 to US zones to get Canadian zone approximation.

... in the spirit of info transfer, not heard of prairie growers claiming good "luck" with Agathe, Agatha Incarnata and Empress Josephine (? tag lost) ... mine range in age from 4 to 10 +/- winters (Z4A) and they retain nearly all their cane to bloom (3 to 5 feet) ... though last winter 50% nearly lost it all (covered the kicked ones this winter) ... still tempting to test crosses of them with Dr. Merkely (cane hardy) / Gertrude Jekyll (not) ... going down the gallica route probably not advised though read of prairie successes of old with Alika ... but action results as opposed to my talk relies on figuring out this "germinating" thing

chuckp
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69230Post chuckp
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:47 am

Hi Paul,
Thanks for pointing out my spelling mistake. You are correct, I meant "pressure" when I said "presser" dah

None of the roses you mentioned repeat for me. Like you said some Spins do throw out a few blooms in the fall.
To hold out for a yellow rose that repeats in zone 2 might not in the best interest of rose breeding in Canada,
My fear is, those small breeders like us may be reluctant to put their work on the market.

TerryZ yellow rose is as good as anything put out my Ag.Canada, but was never put on the market.
chuckp

jbergeson
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69232Post jbergeson
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:23 pm

Speaking of "pressure", we're getting a good test winter here in MN this year with some temps below -30.

Has anyone grown Oscar Peterson? Observations? I don't have one. I ordered 25 from Pan American Roses (I run a retail nursery) and they subbed Sir Thomas Lipton, which I've also not grown. I noticed too late to cancel.

Larry Davis
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69235Post Larry Davis
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:54 pm

I had Sir Thomas L. for years. Beautiful white double flowers on a rugosa-type but glossyish foliage. Sterile as a steer. My recollection was much like what Greenman shows on HMF, no trace of pink color, maybe a little green. No clue on actual winterhardiness up your way. Fine here but we've not had below -10 for about 3 decades.

Paul G. Olsen
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69241Post Paul G. Olsen
Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:19 pm

Joe,

'Oscar Peterson' - It doesn't do anything for me so I wouldn't plant it in a landscape of mine. But considering its pedigree, surprisingly it can be semi-hardy to a Zone 2 climate for at least a couple of years (more testing has to be done). Floriferous and seems to repeat quite well. Fertile as a pistillate parent. Might have some value in a yellow rose breeding program, since it has 'Yellow Submarine' as one of its parents.

'Sir Thomas Lipton' - Hardy to Zone 4 but usually grows well in Zone 3. Despite commonly winter killing somewhat in Zone 3, it usually flowers well. A rather coarse shrub though.

rikuhelin1
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Re: 'Chinook Sunrise' parentage

Post: # 69242Post rikuhelin1
Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:24 pm

Oscar Peterson lasted two winters in my Zone 4A Canadian prairie (foothills) garden in a sheltered south facing garden position. Not inclined to test re-plant, but only because not a fan of white.

One of two Canadian Shields passed on after one winter in a south side sheltered position, other still going (from scratch) in south side full sun.

Chinook Sunrise on order to give it ago since appears to start as an apricot and fits my likes just as Prairie Peace is as a stellar intrepretation, translation and transition of an apricot when rose is in full splender.

For any of my hybridizing efforts (with results eventually?) from the original Mordens and Explorer stock series, these are still in the gardens for more than 10 winters ... or not culled due to vigor or form, and thrive under a regime with benign neglect for care and maintenance, and therefore are good candidates. Pretty sure I have tested all of them in both series.

Cuthbert Grant (touch and go most years)
Hope for Humanity (tree roots got first one in the end as gardens have matured but second planted elsewhere)
Morden Fireglow (touch and go - many planted over the years but well worth the Chinese red laquer color)
Prairie Dawn
Prairie Joy
Winnipeg Parks
Adelaide Hoodless (only blackspot prone Morden in my gardens but a survivor - removed a hedge of 20 of them and they still pop up in spring from ones I left among the cotonaster replacements)


Alexander MacKenzie
Capt. Samuel Holland
Champlain
De Montarville
George Vancouver
Henry Hudson
Henry Kelsey
John Cabot
JP Connell
Lambert Closse
Marie Victoria
Martin Forbisher
Wlliam Baffin

I have moved the gardens pretty well en masse to the old Prairies Hybridized roses (pre-70's) and a couple of new "private prairie efforts", as the success rate in my gardens is/was worth the hunting effort and recommendations given. Also as a plug, very pleased in the evolution of Canada's CornHill Nursery to becoming the commercial keeper of Old Prairie Roses ... my personal esoteric award to them as it was extremely difficult to find the roses in the past ...

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