Easy diploid seed parents

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Plazbo
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Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70073Post Plazbo
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:20 am

So there are numerous mentions of easy tetraploid seed parents like Gemini, Queen Elizabeth, Stainless Steel, etc scattered throughout the forums but when looking for diploid seed parents there's not really any mentions of anything that fits the bill.

Marie Pavie is mentioned as producing around 8 seeds a hip but only a third of pollenations take.
Polys ive dealt with are often very low seed per hip.
Rugosa are high seed count but no juvenile rebloom.
etc

Are there any easy diploid seed parents that pollenate easily, have decent numbers of seed per hip, germinate easily and have the capacity to produce juvenile bloomers when paired with appropriate pollen parents?

Ophiophagus hannah
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70074Post Ophiophagus hannah
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:11 am

Scarlet Pavement × (succeed)

Amber Queen
Blue For You
Mary Rose(AUSmary)

Not bad as a rugosa seed parent.(Cross 36~12 hours before bloom!)

RBaxter
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70075Post RBaxter
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:32 am

If you don't mind going back to the basics, Old Blush, with over 19,000 named descendants is still about as fecund as they come and a healthy booger too in the right environment.
Katy TX Zone 9A

roseseek
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70076Post roseseek
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:49 pm

Oakington Ruby, Rouletii, Magic Wand, Éblouissant, Cramoisi Supérieur, Bon Silène... all produce seed and they germinate pretty easily. Miss Lowe wasn't "easy" but she did succeed with Secret Garden Musk Climber pollen.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

jbergeson
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70077Post jbergeson
Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:24 pm

Ophio, let us know if you get any juvenile bloom on your Scarlet Pavement seedlings. The rugosa pathway is tough, partly because of delayed remontancy. Scarlet Pavement x Blue for You is interesting.

Plazbo
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70078Post Plazbo
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:21 pm

I was already considering Old Blush so going all the way to beginning isn't a problem. I just didn't find anything on what to expect for pollination take, seeds per hip, germination rate.

Primarily looking for easy diploid seed parents to act as a pathway to move genes down from a higher ploidy, eg diploid x triploid, diploid x (diploid x tetraploid)...granted this doesn't confirm diploid offspring but it is stacking the deck a bit towards that goal.

The diploid seed parents I have are just not great for one reason or another, just know there has to be better options than what I currently have given the above plan will be tricky and potentially low success to begin with anyway without using sub par seed parents.

Kim's list highlights my second issue...most of those are or have been in Australia but most of them don't seem to be sold or in anyone's garden anymore. Bon Silène is an option to consider though, so thank you.

Any thoughts on Léonie Lamesch?

Karl K
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70080Post Karl K
Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:00 am

Long ago I used 'Blush Noisette'. It did not set OP seeds in my garden, probably because the reproductive parts are hidden by petals. But it was fertile when I pollinated by hand.

I also used 'Perle d'Or' a little, and 'Sweet Chariot'. The latter has tiny hips and very tiny seeds.

A couple of years ago I was getting ready to use 'OSO Easy Cherry Pie', which does set OP hips. I intended to cross it with 'Snowfire', but forgot how terribly prickly that one is. I should have gone with 'Love'.

Karl

Ophiophagus hannah
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70081Post Ophiophagus hannah
Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:42 am

Jbergeson, I haven't get any juvenile bloom Offspring from Scarlet Pavement.

Scarlet Pavement x Blue for You
It repeats,but not well.
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Ophiophagus hannah
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70082Post Ophiophagus hannah
Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:51 am

Therese Bugnet can offer juvenile bloom and continuous flowering offspring, but it is not a good seed parent.

Therese Bugnet x ( Blue For You × Crested Moss )

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Plazbo
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70083Post Plazbo
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:41 pm

Ophiophagus hannah wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:51 am
Therese Bugnet can offer juvenile bloom and continuous flowering offspring, but it is not a good seed parent

Therese Bugnet x ( Blue For You × Crested Moss )

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Slightly off topic but curious if there is pics of ( Blue For You × Crested Moss ).

I do have TB, acquired late in the season last year as suckers so will have that to play with this season. That and Calocarpa if it decides to bloom (maybe it just needs to reach a certain size...unsure, everything else blooms) in theory probably could too being half china.

RBaxter
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70085Post RBaxter
Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:57 pm

Old Blush has been around for a very long time so it would not surprise me that those from different sources may have changed a bit, but the one I have sets 1.5 to 2.0 cm hips with surprisingly large achenes that require only a mild stratification.

Another call out for Blush Noisette, especially for its pollen.

And a plug for Jersey Beauty - hips set well, good germination, and not quite easy in that you have to be pollen ready for its bloom period, but it will throw a fraction of quite healthy repeaters given remontant pollen.
Katy TX Zone 9A

Ophiophagus hannah
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70095Post Ophiophagus hannah
Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:09 am

[quote=Plazbo post_id=70083 time=1562632919 user_id=1984]
[quote="Ophiophagus hannah" post_id=70082 time=1562586718 user_id=1320]
Therese Bugnet can offer juvenile bloom and continuous flowering offspring, but it is not a good seed parent

Therese Bugnet x ( Blue For You × Crested Moss )

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[/quote]

Slightly off topic but curious if there is pics of ( Blue For You × Crested Moss ).

I do have TB, acquired late in the season last year as suckers so will have that to play with this season. That and Calocarpa if it decides to bloom (maybe it just needs to reach a certain size...unsure, everything else blooms) in theory probably could too being half china.
[/quote]

Plazbo, I always pollinate 3-4 days after flower. Some of offsprings continue flowering, but I haven't get any seeding that have obvious crested feature.


Blue For You × Crested Moss
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johannes p
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70096Post johannes p
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:51 pm

While not juvenile, I usually get some bloom by fall, from rugosas

johannes p
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70097Post johannes p
Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:01 pm

I forgot Rosa rugosa/ R. woodsii hybrids make excellent parents.[attachment=0]125984EE-41E9-435A-8D58-45BA40E00C0E.jpeg[/attachment]
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One of these hybrids

Plazbo
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70098Post Plazbo
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:55 am

I haven't raised enough rugosa to gauge that possibility yet but do have a quite a few seedlings this season. I have seen similar less than a year blooming from rubiginosa (lord penzance) seedlings though so maybe i'll encounter it with rugosa too.

Rugosa x woodsii/blanda hybrids are something I'll have eventually just have to wait on seedlings from sheffields.com to reach blooming age, maybe next year. I like the thick rugosa foliage so it's something I intend to incorporate as typical to any breeding lines I create eventually.

Will be coming at it from various angles.

johannes p
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Re: Easy diploid seed parents

Post: # 70100Post johannes p
Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:36 pm

Remind me in the fall and I will send you seed. I can send you (Red Frau Dagmar Hastop x Rosa woodsi) and of (FM3:(Rosa woodsii x R. rugosa))X Red Frau Dagmar Hastropp). All very fertile

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