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Alain Blanchard

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:08 pm
by gvarden
Has anyone here ever used Alain Blanchard (Centifolia, Gallica / Provins, Vibert 1839)?

I got no results using its pollen this season.

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:42 pm
by joverom
I haven't used it a great deal but I have a few seedlings from using it as a pollen parent.

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:50 pm
by gvarden
Any flowers Julie?

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:34 pm
by pbarden
I have one hybrid I kept over the years, a cross of Sequoia Ruby X Alain Blanchard. See: 08-02-05

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:34 pm
by gvarden
OK... so at least I now know it is pollen fertile, but what about spot transmission??

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:57 pm
by joverom
George,

I did several Gallica crosses in 2008. Only four had bloomed as of last year and they were all Tuscany Superb seedlings. I am hoping to see most of the others bloom this season, although it will be a few weeks yet before flowering begins here. I tried to cross TS and Alain Blanchard with three of my darkest colored seedlings. Unfortunately, I was a bit disappointed to find that none of the four seedlings to bloom had a color intensity that was as lovely as that of TS and none had a very high petal count, even though all the seedlings used in the crosses were double. I'm hoping to see the spotting come through from Alain Blanchard this season. Paul's seedlings has the type of form I was hoping to see, but I suppose that neither TS or AB are as double as many of the Gallicas.

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:00 pm
by avanable
George,

I have some open-pollenated seedlings from Alain Blanchard. They seeds germinated rather well, but have not bloomed yet. They germinated in the winter of 2010-2011. They aren't the most vigorous of seedlings. Quite winter hardy - I think it will take a couple of more years before they will bloom.

Andy

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:05 pm
by gvarden
Hmmmm....

I am suspicious its pollen is not very fertile, it failed all my attempts on my most fertile seed setter, and various other modern type roses I grow that have easily set seed for me.

Julie, good luck and please update if possible on those yet to flower.

I might try AB again come next season (Sept onwards)... I also might not given the effort and lack of any positive result I have experienced here...I do get over these things rather quickly once they have failed to that extent for me.

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:16 pm
by gvarden
Andy, good luck with your AB x OP!

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:35 pm
by pbarden
Open pollinated 'Alain Blanchard' seedlings are mostly a dreadful lot: weak, mildew prone, many never mature at all. However, if you do get one or two with decent vigor and grow clean, the odds are very good that you will see spotting.

I kept one out of a bunch: Song of the Stars Not a very strong grower, and really REALLY difficult to propagate (I've given up trying to root cuttings).

Cheryl Netter in Denver also has a very nice seedling, and its a much stronger plant than mine, but apparently it does not have a listing on HMF :-(

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:47 pm
by gvarden
SOTS has a lovely flower, Paul.

That spotting against the deep red-purple is especially what I love about AB.

On the topic of propagating, has anyone here tried propagating AB? Is it an ok one to strike its own roots??

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:54 pm
by gvarden
Also... it seems rather strange this one has not been hybridized more??

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:21 am
by pbarden
[quote=gvarden]

On the topic of propagating, has anyone here tried propagating AB? Is it an ok one to strike its own roots??

[/quote]

I used to propagate it, from cuttings. Definitely one of the most difficult of all the Gallicas to root. Best to just dig up suckers.

If you refer back to my comments about OP AB seedlings being wek, prone to dying when young and having severe disease problems, you would understand why nobody wants to breed it. The moment you cross it to something modern/remontant, the spots vanish. I have grown hundreds of seedlings to prove it.

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:34 am
by gvarden
The moment you cross it to something modern/remontant, the spots vanish. I have grown hundreds of seedlings to prove it.
The most pivotal comment as far as I am concerned here.

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:36 am
by gvarden
Paul, in deliberate crosses did you ever try it as a seed parent (i.e. not asking about the OP here), or only just as a pollen parent?

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:57 am
by kim rupert
Not an OGR, but 'spotted', if you want to breed spots, perhaps Ladybug might be a better choice?

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:23 am
by gvarden
lol... even dirt seems to be a *better choice* the way it is starting to sound....

:O(

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:10 am
by kim rupert
Some years ago, Brent Dickerson raised a seedling from Marbree, if I recall correctly, which was deeper colored with more dramatic spotting. I forget precisely what he named it but it had something to do with "Vibert", again, if I'm remembering properly. He had Burling try to grow it, but it was very weak and was never even added to HMF.

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:28 am
by SimonV
'Marbree' is available from Ladybird Roses here in Australia.

Cutting propagation, as Paul said, is quite difficult with 'Alain Blanchard'. I've tried twice using the pre-callousing method and failed the first time. I'm trying for the second time now and have had cuttings in the wrap for two weeks so far. One is beginning to callous but only just. Touch wood *taps head* it keeps going this time. Passing this trait on to its progeny worries me more than not passing on spots. I was thinking a cross with something like 'Midnight Blue'/'Ebb Tide' *spits* might work for spotting as Jim mentioned once a few years back that he got spontaneous spotting from a MB seedling. I'm not sure I want to do any more Gallica x modern crosses, however, as the result so far has been a lot of mildew and not a lot of flowers. I just want AB around from a collection POV. They do love it here though and it would be nice to have a greater selection of Gallica-like roses down here... just because ;)

On that note I have about 40 hips on 'Tuscany' and a handfull on 'Tuscany Superb'. If anyone in Australia would like to play with them let me know.

Re: Alain Blanchard

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:47 am
by gvarden
Not really obsessed with breeding the spots so much as wanting something spotty out of AB..... errr... the goal with AB for me was to acquire and breed from AB rather than breed spots from other CV as such.....ummm it was LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT when I spotted AB in full flower last December...it was spots from AB or no spots from nothin' LOL!!!!!

I JUST HAD TO HAVE IT !!!!

Having said that, as I don't have a plant of AB (used pollen that was provided by a friend of mine) I'm not sure I will bother with the next step of acquiring one (I was just considering acquiring it) given the above breeding information.

JUST NOT SURE NOW !!!